Side-by-Side Comparison: NP vs Physician (MD or DO) Below is a side-by-side comparison of doctors and NPs, including the typical timeline to practice, responsibilities, education, licensure, and professional resources. Like a resident for the duration of their professional career? But I just want to point out the poor citation of evidence. We get thrown everything under the sun and have to deal with it. He would have been defending his turf if he was a primary care physician though. Doctors of reddit, why did you choose to go to medical school instead of NP or PA school? Doctors of reddit, why did you choose to go to medical school instead of NP or PA school? anon456, BSN, RN. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, RN - harm reduction | supervised injection | medicine. If you're not a specialist, it must be because you aren't good enough. I doubt this truly has to do with creating "access" as Nursing Leadership would say. We both went to medical school, they just get paid a lot more.". Today is my birthday so this is extra-great. Just do med school if you have the GPA/MCAT for … The NP has published papers, run clinical trials, and gets referrals from across the state by all sorts of clinicians. I think it's nice to hear from someone who is specialized for reasons other than thinking primary care sucks. I wonder how many people realize the disparity in hours trained (1600 vs a minimum of 12,000)? GravelRider SDN Lifetime Donor. They allowed the license to practice medicine become meaningless without completion of a long, underpaid residency program. It attempts to show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. My intern year, I rotated through the preop testing clinic, where we saw sick patients (usually ASA 3 or 4) prior to surgery. I think nursing is constantly trying to define and redefine itself and it's totally unnecessary. If you could go back would you change your path? Now, an NP can be pretty good at a lot of things right out of school - managing certain illnesses/diseases, educating patients, preventative care, etc - but there are many things that really require experience in order for someone to be proficient, and I don't think 600 hours is enough experience. I can never understand why NPs would want to rid themselves of physician oversight. But with collaborative agreement legislation, the NP is legally unable to work without strings attached. Archived. Close. This is based on what I've seen during my time with all three career paths as well as wisdom given to me from doctors, PA's, and NP's. chare. If you could go back would you change your path? Practicing under a physician is important because we have fundamentally less training and school. by Rebekah Bernard MD January 16, 2020 share … Nurse practitioners work for substantially less than primary docs. As it stands now, they have a pretty awesome setup in that they are almost completely protected from liability in their practice. A lot of things had gone down in the medical profession over the last 100 years but I'd have to say that the last 10 years or so have to have been some of the worst for doctors as a profession. Instead this falls on the physician. The Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) is designed to prepare experts in clinical nursing practice or in systems-focused roles outside of direct patient care. Please read the rules carefully before posting or commenting. If so, what abnormal habit/oddity did the patient have thinking it was normal? By removing false barriers to practice, such as the not-adhered-to guidelines requiring physicians review medications, therapeutics and lab results ordered by NPs — all content covered in NP school —would allow the team to focus on what truly matters: patient care. If you've been a nurse for 5 years it makes more sense to just do NP and up your pay/responsibility vs going back to medical school. I really like how this article is written! licensed and independent healthcare clinicians concentrated on managing patient's health conditions including treating injuries and illnesses But yes, I think people look down on nurses like all we do is take orders. Hospitals are employing more and more docs, for a number of reasons. Apr 30, 2014 . It's just the truth. Of course not. Typically it involves a number of charts reviewed over the prior month long period. An NP is working in a hypertension clinic, has been for 10-15 years. You are not, you were trained in the NURSING SCOPE of practice. Doctors/therapist of Reddit, do you have any "no, that's not normal" stories? Although my decision will not be heavily based on the responses I receive on this thread I am curious as to whether you, as MD's prefer to work with PA's or NP's and why? I'm not saying all NPs are like this, but some are, and deserve the respect they have earned. It used to be that nurses became NPs after many years of bedside nursing, so they could use their clinical expertise in a job that was perhaps less hard on the body, with a more predictable schedule. RELATED - DNP vs MD. hide. Of course NP’s are not trained like doctors. Is there any other type of person who could be more knowledgeable and less biased? One had had 20 years of bedside nursing experience before becoming an NP, one with 2 years....and that one is honestly not very good, but she doesn't really have to be, since she can refer things up if necessary. As pharmacists, physical therapists, audiologists, and others began requiring doctorate degrees, nurse practitioners followed suit. The biggest driver for high physician pay is that most physicians will start their professional career with more student debt than a mortgage. /r/medicine is a virtual lounge for physicians and other medical professionals from around the world to talk about the latest advances, controversies, ask questions of each other, have a laugh, or share a difficult moment. I agree with you Pamela, the RN should consider becoming an NP instead. Find more subreddits like r/NPD -- A place for those who suffer from a narcissistic personality to talk about their problems and get support. Article about the importance of primary care physicians, mentions we need to do more to encourage med students to choose to become primary care physicians. And I'll even take this example one step further.. What happens when the "collaborative" physician just starts treating this well educated, well respected, and well experienced NP like a resident? We're not completely protected, but it does help. It's the same reason for the bullshit DNP degree. Do you think any recent internal med grad is going to be able to adequately "oversee" this NP? The NP teaches at the local university regarding HTN management and has been invited to speak at national conferences regarding his or her work. /r/medicine is a virtual lounge for physicians and other medical professionals from around the world to talk about the latest advances, controversies, ask questions of each other, have a laugh, or share a difficult moment. How should we expect someone with 3600 hours' experience (approximately 1 year of residency) to perform? Thank you so much for the gold! The militant ones & the lobbying groups believe they are not lesser providers, but rather equals. That seems about as credible as you can get, actually. It adds nothing clinically, it is only for the "title". We worked with an CRNA, and one day I overheard a snippet that made me sort of....irked. Medical knowledge is only getting more complex. I'm leaning towards becoming a PA but my decision isn't close to being concrete. So, the short answer is yes - a DNP nurse may be referred to as "doctor," however, some states have legislation surrounding this. From 15 years ago (1999)? Yet in New York State next year, nurse practitioners with perhaps even less clinical education will be allowed to do so. I could easily be a NP but its not what I am interested in. It is a special case of ad hominem fallacy, which is a category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of fact about the person presenting or supporting the claim or argument. VA Goes Too Far on NP Independence — Doctors' morale suffers, and patient care may follow suit. Edited May 1, 2014 by tnbutterfly. I'm going back for my psych NP starting in the fall, and it's a long haul and not an easy overnight thing. Although this is not the DNP nurse's intent, it can be misconstrued negatively. I find it troubling how GPs are considered to be beneath other doctors - this seems to be very common in the U.S. She had no idea what was wrong with him, but her primary-care instructor, on a routine pass by, immediately diagnosed goiter, an enlargement of the thyroid gland. “Physician” was used traditionally to describe a medical doctor, and King Henry VIII granted the first charter to form the Royal College of Physicians in 1518. 75% Upvoted. Medical students give a lot of time and money to their education, and when they are done, they face have years of overwork and underpay....meanwhile watching PA and NP students zip past them into practice and family life. Posted by 2 years ago. save. Also, whether you are an MD/DO or an NP commenting on this matter, I ask you to please demonstrate your pros/cons in a constructive and respectful way. As a practicing nurse, I agree. I'm an anesthesiology resident. I feel like I am as smart if not smarter than many physicians that I have worked with, but that occupation just doesn’t fit my personality. 2. Interactive NP Scope of Practice Law Guide. Did anyone read the study he uses as the crux of his argument? That kind of pressure, along with the high stakes, drive people away. Is it onerous oversight? The NP teaches at the local university regarding HTN management and has been invited to speak at national conferences regarding his or her work. We shouldn't be. Many people are pushing for NP's to have doctorates, and the program I'm going into provides that. Why are we ok with less and less training and more independence for everyone? This attempts to dismiss opponent's position based on criticism of the opponent's inconsistency and not the position presented. Physical therapists, pharmacists, and nurse practioners either already have or are all moving toward doctorates. The MD’s are reporting NP’s refer to specialist more. Most people pursuing NP is a combination of being more comfortable with the nursing model and convenience. In general I'm appalled at the state of nursing education beyond the most basic level, but that is a conversation for another time. Today, the American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) and the American Association of Nurse Practitioners (AANP) recommend that all new nurse practitioners earn a doctor … It seems to me that nurses are some of the last true generalists in medicine. Join my SubReddit Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/DoctorMikeIn this SR I will be chatting with you guys about published videos, medical topics, and more. To clarify, although the person being attacked might indeed be acting inconsistently or hypocritically, such behavior does not invalidate the position presented.". report. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=UUEqKKebvZbAQoD3NRIn4jaQ Fresh AskReddit Stories: ? By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I did: http://www.acponline.org/clinical_information/journals_publications/ecp/novdec99/hemani.htm. That level of generality necessarily leads to a lack of depth in knowledge. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Hier sollte eine Beschreibung angezeigt werden, diese Seite lässt dies jedoch nicht zu. It establishes a go-to advisor for difficult cases. Further I doubt that many NP's will actually elect to open an independent clinic. Many medical offices and hospitals offer care provided by nurse practitioners, commonly referred to as NPs. Advanced practice isn't for everyone, and I found myself in a similar sitiuation. 4 Likes. Press J to jump to the feed. Same reason that I didn’t go to medical school and become a MD. To be clear though- the level of training Doctors receive is unparalleled in the medical field. (She ended up specializing in cardiology.). I've had two different NPs as PCPs for the past ten years (both operating as part of a team with MDs). I am not knocking down the profession of nursing, what I am annoyed with is NURSES/NP's claiming to be equivalent to MD's. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The average NP student even completing school would not pass USMLE Step 1. We are also not trained to see a patient every 7 minutes. Why not change the request from higher pay for doctors to less schooling costs for doctors? 3 comments. Want to watch more amazing Reddit stories? Even fellowship-trained subspecialists find the breadth of primary care challenging. Why hire enough cardiologists to meet demand, when a cardiology resident could do a lot of the work for a lot less? Some feel that "nurses shouldn't pretend to be doctors." Do you think any recent internal med grad is going to be able to adequately "oversee" this NP? They choked the supply of trained doctors, and did not allow it to keep pace with the demand. I work with several NPs in the ICU setting that are just as good as, if not better than, the MD's who are also on duty. A fair comparison of training could be comparing a Navy Seal (MD) to a very good personal trainer (DNP or NP)- it’s just not the same. I know this is a very lengthy post, but I've been so torn between the NP and MD path that I'm not sure how to condense everything into a few short sentences. I think that the whole medical ecosystem only works if we all know our role and do it to the best of our ability. The NP has published papers, run clinical trials, and gets referrals from across the state by all sorts of clinicians. While the nurses did seem to have higher utilization, the difference was NOT statistically significant. The patient asked what the difference was between a CRNA and an MD anesthesiologist. As an experienced PA who has worked in primary care, cardiology, ED, and now as a hospitalist, I do wonder why NP's would find it necessary or desirable to sever a formal supervisory role with physicians. If you are not sure if you even like medicine I think getting in the throes of it somehow (whether it’s shadowing or a job) will help you decide. Yes, this is the appeal of nursing for me. Patients can often get an appointment to see an NP sooner than they can get in to see a doctor. Of course we do, we are not trained to manage complex medical problems. Of Course, It’s Not That Simple. This is a highly moderated subreddit. In the current medical environment, the business model that has not been working for physicians is unlikely to work much better for NPs. Reactions: 1 users Reply. There's just no way a new NP could be proficient with only 600 hours of clinicals. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. We will not approve surveys that are not directly related to nurse practitioners and their careers. I’m a woman but not particularly interested in having kids but you can definitely still do that as a doctor (some fields are better than others). It must at least partially be due to the business model - residents are cheap workers. Although I'm not convinced that he's really an anesthesiologist . There are pros and cons to letting midlevels be primary care providers but perhaps from a selfish future physician point of view, maybe we should be paying primary care mode than peanuts of current salary when compared to specialists. A nurse practitioner (NP), also known as an Advanced Registered Nurse Practitioner (ARNP), provides primary care and performs tasks comparable to those of a doctor, from prescribing medication to ordering tests and interpreting the results. Please read the rules carefully before posting or commenting. Even fellowship-trained subspecialists find the breadth of primary care challenging. I worked as an advanced practice nurse for nearly 6 months, and hated each new day more than the previous. Let me paint you a picture. e.g. I focused on that same paragraph. They allowed the license to practice medicine become meaningless without completion of a long, underpaid residency program. When I was doing my internship, 15 years ago, a fellow intern told me about a patient she had seen in the clinic whose voice was hoarse. “You have to know too much to do primary care,” she concluded. Despite the difference in title, they're more alike than you think. The word “doctor” is over 2,000 years old, aptly derived from the Latin doctus, meaning to teach or instruct. I literally have 30 minutes of work to do every 15 minutes. I'm not a doc. They often train the residents and they provide very good input and collaboration on a patient's care. You can't make up for that in a few years with a few hundred clinical hours. Her reply: "Nothing. Evidence against them is never scrutinized. Not really. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. They choked the supply of trained doctors, and did not allow it to keep pace with the demand. For the complete article go to Nurses are Not Doctors. However, only a master’s degree is required to become a nurse practitioner. There may be other viewpoints but … Now nurses are becoming NPs straight out of nursing school, because it's cheaper/easier than going to med school. "Tu quoque or the appeal to hypocrisy is an argument that intends to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position. They allowed other more quickly and cheaply trained health professionals to take over their practice. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. share. The medical side of practicing independently is not the difficult part, it's compliance and billing. 5+ Year Member. "I understand this system (as a Doctor); I am advocating for someone else's interests possibly at my own expense (increased pay for a different specialty from a competitive poor of resources); I understand the benefits of primary physicians, had the opportunity to become one but chose a different specialty (implicitly a lack of rewards or encouragement contributed to that decision).". Wondering if it's OK to see a nurse practitioner instead of your usual doctor when you're not feeling well? an inch of faxes every morning, and 15 minutes to see a patient with 5 chronic problems and 3 complaints (account for documentation time, and that's 90 seconds per problem). Makes me want to improve on my writing skills. It sounds better than a primary care physician saying we need to increase pay for primary care physicians. I don't want to be a doc. Doctors go to medical school for four years and then have specialty training after that. Cookies help us deliver our Services. I can never understand why NPs would want to rid themselves of physician oversight, and I know several who agree with me. However, I would not ask just any doctor to help me with a patient in transport- so there is a difference even amongst doctors they are not all the same. Evidence promoting NP quality is always slandered as poor. perhaps from a selfish future physician point of view, maybe we should be paying primary care mode than peanuts of current salary when compared to specialists. Continuing with the medical Reddit thread series this episode is on second opinions that saved lives! Chiropractors attend graduate-level health colleges to treat disorders of the bones, nerves, muscles, and ligaments. It's the pay that drives this entire issue. All questions related to NP admissions, brick and mortar vs. online programs, and direct entry NP programs along with any posts related to NP school admissions should be posted in the weekly prospective NP thread.

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